In the Hofstra Gang Rape Story, I find it very hard to believe that, according to the New York Post, 18 year old Danmell Ndonye, "exceptionally intelligent and quiet...[who] had gone to a private high school on scholarship," and who according to Antionette Perez, a retired NYPD civilian employee is, "a nice innocent, well bred, shy girl," would consent to have sex with not one, not two, not three, not four, but five men. There is something missing here. There is something that doesn't make sense.
I teach 18 year old young women. Some of them, like Ms. Ndonye, are recent immigrants from Africa--- and I may be guilty of over generalizing here--- but in my eight years of experience, that's 16 semesters, these women come from devout homes, from good families, and they are indeed polite, well-mannered, quiet and hard working; sweet and kind almost to a fault. I cannot fathom a young girl, kissing a man on the dance floor, the man saying "I have friends here with me," and the girl replying, "Bring them along. It'll be hot." And then having sex with five strange men in a bathroom.
It's not the first time a woman has retracted rape allegations. Most of the time a woman's change of heart is tied up with the thought of public humiliation added on to the private horror. It certainly doesn't mean these men are innocent. In fact it galls me to see their beleaguered expressions in the paper, their statement, "My name is forever tarnished. I'll always have to explain it." You're damn right you will. Whatever happened in that bathroom was not innocent, and I highly doubt it was 100% consensual. If anything its that gray area --- the ambiguous and highly charged landscape of date rape.
Camille Paglia claims that women ought to recognize and respect that men are beasts and women need to behave accordingly. Don't go to frat parties, get dead drunk and allow yourself to become a victim. Part of me agrees with this--- but part of me says, what about the young men who are growing up with a sense of entitlement and with no respect for women? I don't think these young men are degenerates who deserve to spend the rest of their lives in jail. But surely some punishment is in order. As I said, date rape is hard to categorize, and I'm sure that much more difficult to prosecute. But ask me to believe that an 18 year old honor student, characterized as "brilliant" and "polite" would agree to have sex with five men? No, that's impossible.
I can't be the only person who finds this hard to believe. I can't be the only person who knows that her side of the story is missing from the equation.
Um, Georgia Just Shut Down the Committee That Reported Abortion Ban Deaths
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“Confidential information provided to the Maternal Mortality Review
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Spare us your nonsensical misandryst ravings.
ReplyDeleteYour "exceptionally intelligent and quiet" Danmell Ndonye is really no better than Crystal Gail Mangum. Remember her? She is the African American hooker who framed the Duke Lacrosse players.
Just because you 'cannot fathom a young girl, kissing a man on the dance floor, the man saying "I have friends here with me," and the girl replying, "Bring them along. It'll be hot." And then having sex with five strange men in a bathroom.' it does not mean that it did not happen that way.
In any event, the police and DA department investigators; however wrong they may have been in summarily arresting the 5 alleged rapists, at least followed through with the investigation in a proper manner, and found her story to be non-credible.
But then, to you at least, "all men are rapists, they just haven't committed it yet!" and "her side of the story hasn't been heard yet", is the typical response.
What arrant nonsense. What an arrogant asshole you are. You probably believe Tawana Brawley was raped, as well.
Why not try apologising to those 5 men on behalf of Ms Ndonye instead of trying to prop up her false accusations against them.
You stlye yourself "Mad Woman for Modern Times", I agree with wholeheartedly with the first tw words.
First of all, there is no such word as "misandryst." The word is misandry. As for the African American hooker, Crystal Gail Mangum, how nice of you to be so politically correct referring to her ethnicity, but then to reveal your own hatred of women by referring to her as a hooker.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't so long ago, that the police would show up at domestic disturbances, the wife sporting a black eye or fat lip, and told to behave and listen to her husband. So I am not impressed that the DA and police did not find her story credible.
As for my own hatred of men, or thinking that all men are potential rapists, as you claim, you are incorrect sir in your estimation. I see this as an issue of social justice and equality and parity.
Many, many women retract allegations of rape, the vast majority of rape cases never have their day in court, again, these women are cowed into silence by the very system which is supposed to protect them and does not.
Also, why continue to read a blog that you believe is written by an arrogant asshole? Why waste your time? Why do you remain anonymous? Step out into the clear light of day, as I have done with my beliefs.
Yeah sure, no one engages in group sex unless they are in the 30's or 40's.
ReplyDeleteAnd your virginal 18-yr old Ndonye has a boyfriend after being at school for only a few weeks?
Sounds to me like she is rebelling against her parents and asserting her independent feminism as a young adult.
All this stuff makes me glad I am 51 and happily married. It was tough enough when I was young to negotiate my way through the sexual dance - can't imagine it today.
ReplyDeleteFew thoughts - even back when my hormones did most of my thinking, I thought it was ironic that guys who slept around were "studs" and the girls who did the same were "sluts". But then I found "Cosmopolitan" (my older sister read it all the time)magazine equally ironic - articles about "being the real you" brought to you by breast enhancement creams and those panties with built in curvy ass parts.
Even as a young man, there were things I didn't get. What is the thrill with strippers? Some chick is going to disrobe and stick everything in my face.....and then what? Hands off...or I can pay for some sex if it is "that" kind of place. I went to one strip club - was all fired up for the first ten minutes or so and then left feeling depressed for everyone involved. How sad that guys had to pay stupid prices for admission and drinks to watch women take their clothes off. How sad that women couldn't think of something else to do for money buy get a room full of guys all horny.
Another thing that never had much appeal - being one of 5 guys to have sex with somebody - even if she was a willing participant. No thank you! Guess all this brands me as quite the prude, eh? Not true.
Fast forward today to the incredible mixed messages floating in the air. You want me to respect you for who you are lady? Want me to look you in the eyes when I talk to you? Well, how about skipping the push up bra and skimpy top so I can see PAST your chest? How can I not look at your ass when you wear shorts with words printed across it - the sole design of which is to draw my attention there and look at your ass to read the word(s)?
Sometimes I feel it is like when African Americans call each other and themselves "nigger" all the time and then castigate others if they do the same. If I don't want someone to call me "honky" but go around referring to myself as one all the time........
Want to be treated with respect - then don't wear clothes that say "Ho" and "Nasty Girl", etc. etc. while showing all of us all your assests.
WTF does this have to do with your blog post LA? Not really sure. If 5guys raped a girl, they ought to be flogged.
If some girl lured 5 guys into something and then cried "rape", then she ought to be flogged.
I have to admit when the story about the Lacrosse team first came out and they said the girl was an "exotic dancer" who was stripping for the team I thought, "Walking into a group of college jocks and taking your clothes off is really asking for trouble." Am I advocating rape - Hell NO, but good lord - you get a naked woman in a room with a bunch of drunk 20 somethings and it does not take rocket science to predict a very good chance of an unsavory outcome.
Sorry for the long post. I read your stuff n it makes me thingk - YOUR FAULT!!!
Fair enough, Cliff. It is a bewildering morass of double standards, a very good friend of mine, a man, once told me the story about how he and some girl hooked up in college, both very drunk, and the next day she announced he had raped her. He was like WTF? Like I said, part of me hates what Camille Paglia writes and part of me agrees with her, you are asking for trouble when you strip, dance or otherwise fraternize with a group of drunk young men. However, on the other hand, its sad when all of a sudden a woman finds herself in a situation where she thought trust was part of the equation only to be overpowered. I found myself in just such a situation with another man, more of an acquianctance, both he AND his girlfriend were friends, but one night, he attacked me. It was scary, and I wasn't so young--- it was just five years ago. What is the answer? I wish I knew. Except to speak up on behalf of all women and to get conversations like this going in the interest of attempting a rapport between the sexes b/c let's face it, sex is great.
ReplyDeleteSuch conversations are good - just wish I would have checked my comments for spelling!
ReplyDeleteOne last thing I never understood -forcing oneself sexually on someone else. Would prefer to masturbate! Had a lot of sex fantasies, but a rape fantasy was never among them. The experts say it is not about sex, but power, eh?
Is power a motivator for women to show off their breasts? We own a small jewelry store and I am the sales dept. - gotta say that lots of women of all ages are pushin' them up and putting them out there. Sometimes it makes conversation very difficult. Am I supposed to stare at them? Do you WANT me to stare at them? Is this a test to see how long I can look around them?
What say you LA? Help a brother out.
I would say yes, in that context, in your store, boobs hanging out, you are supposed to demurely glance at them, just enough to know that they are appreciated.
ReplyDeleteBut also want to make this point: 95% of men are good men. Like you, Cliff, who understand rape is about power and not about sexuality. The two are very different. I have a problem not with the good men of this world, and they are legion, but with the laws and the still existing double standard.
ReplyDelete